Troy Swain: Black Box Miasma ([info]uberdionysus) wrote,
@ 2008-12-09 02:51:00
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Entry tags:my comics

Rant Comic

A Quick Update...











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[info]flying_squid
2008-12-09 08:25 am UTC (link)
Fuck yeah on that last bit, Troy. It honestly has made a lot of people shrivel up and turn cynical and ugly. I want it to go away so bad...

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[info]uberdionysus
2008-12-09 08:34 am UTC (link)
What's odd is that it dominates the conversation here on LJ, and as far as I can tell, on the internet in general.

What's odd is that many of my friends implicitly believe in its basic tenets, without questioning their validity, and without asking the most basic question: Who benefits?

The 60s was filled with pie-in-the-sky idealism, and irrational demands. And the backlash was severe, esp. in Czechoslovakia and South America (but also in the U.S. and Japan). But I'd rather have crazed idealists who believe in beautiful goals and the communality of all, then cynical pricks who are in it for themselves. The ideology of libertarianism or of extreme individualism or whatever the fuck you call it is nasty and brutal. Unfortunately, it is not short.

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[info]eruv
2008-12-09 01:25 pm UTC (link)
I don't think it does (dominate the conversation).

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[info]uberdionysus
2008-12-09 03:45 pm UTC (link)
Libertarians with a Capital L are a pretty small group in RL, but not online. That said, libertarian ideas with a little l are the dominate ideas of my entire lifetime.

And the day we agree on anything related to libertarianism is a day when dogs and cats frolic together down Broadway.

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[info]eruv
2008-12-09 09:36 pm UTC (link)
Libertarians are overrepresented online, but that's not the same thing as saying that they dominate the conversation. Atheists are also overrepresented online -- are you serious going to argue that atheists dominate the conversation?

libertarian ideas with a little l are the dominate ideas of my entire lifetime.

I find this hard to believe, Troy. You're an artist who lives in Williamsburg. Is that really where all the Friedmanites are hanging out these days?

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[info]uberdionysus
2008-12-09 10:05 pm UTC (link)
Yes, I think that libertarians and atheists dominate the conversation. I'm talking about the areas that I frequent, but those areas are THE popular public forums. That included Usenet, includes LJ, the "blogosphere," and every other public forum I've been on. There are plenty of other forums that cater to specific ideologies, but the big and popular free-for-alls have been dominated by libertarians and atheists. [info]debate is a tiny example of that.

And yes, at base, most of my friends hold the ideas of personal responsibility over and above ideas of liberty, equality and justice. Even in Williamsburg. Even in Needles, Ca., an extremely poor working-class Democratic town. The more I read, the more I realize that's a new thing that's only cropped up in its current form in the last 30+ years (longer than my lifetime, so it's all I've known). I hope I live long enough to watch it decline. Not go away, but get balanced out by other concerns.

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Beating a dead horse...
[info]uberdionysus
2008-12-09 10:18 pm UTC (link)
I just re-read my statement. What I meant was that the libertarian emphasis on personal liberty has become the defining ideology of the U.S. in all aspects of life. It rests behind the politics of the last four presidents, and behind most of ideologies I've encountered throughout my entire life.

It has dominated economic thought, social thought, politics, and even the art and music world. You can even include identity politics as an off-shoot, since the traditional theories stress atomization of group dynamics and highlight personal/individual liberties.

All of that's arguable, and again, there's nothing wrong with the pursuit of individual freedoms. It could be argued that it was a pendulum swing against the pie-in-the-sky collectivist mindset of the 60s, but I think it's gone way too far. I believe very strongly in the Xian values of brotherhood/equality and collective responsibility for the weak and poor, and would like the pendulum to swing to that.

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[info]flying_squid
2008-12-09 06:02 pm UTC (link)
I'm pretty lucky in that I have a best friend who is actively trying to reverse this trend.

He was raised UU, has a Bachelor's in Religion from a college here, and now he's working at one of the BEST churches in Cleveland (non-bible thumping, gay-loving Episcopalians). He's been to Lesotho to help with organizing farmers and Mississippi to help Katrina victims. One of his internships was staying in an apartment in a not-so-great neighborhood and helping out that neighborhood's food bank.

Not too long ago, the church he works at found out they needed a youth minister. Guess who they chose? I can only hope that he's getting through to the kids and teens that have been attending the group and that they can spread the love.

I wish I had as much caring as he does. I even feel bad when we're downtown and he gives his change to a homeless person, regardless of the fact they may spend it on alcohol and crack.

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communal pool
[info]lostcosmonaut
2008-12-09 12:07 pm UTC (link)
idea-wise I've heard this a lot from you, but for some reason it has more punch in this format

--mza.

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[info]uberdionysus
2008-12-09 03:46 pm UTC (link)
I'm on a mission.

And I still can't believe Kevin H. read my blog. Whoa. That almost makes me want to stop making posts like this.

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[info]uberdionysus
2008-12-09 03:57 pm UTC (link)
And it's weird for ME to say this, but I wish people would really absorb Jesus' ideas. His shit is STILL revolutionary. I hate His stress on the afterlife and on God, but I like everything else. For one thing, it would stop contemporary Christians from taking lessons from only one line of Leviticus, and for another it would force 90% of Americans (or whatever percentage is Xtian) to start seriously giving a shit about the poor, sick and weak - all things that would smash the current ideology. And man, "turning another cheek," "casting no stones," and "loving your neighbor as yourself" are HARDCORE ideas that would make this world a better place. I don't know if I can do any of them, but even trying a little bit has made me a slightly better person.

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[info]maria_sputnik
2008-12-09 12:40 pm UTC (link)
i'm with mario -- everything you say sounds more intense when it's in your handwriting. (also, this reads kind of comics-ey even without pictures.)

is the novel a novel novel or a comics novel?

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[info]uberdionysus
2008-12-09 03:50 pm UTC (link)
Comics novel. Been working on it since early summer, but almost all I've been doing is research. Endless research. I really like research, which is part of the problem. And it's WAY too ambitious.

I read enough to know that I'm not a good enough writer to pull off a great book.

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(Anonymous)
2008-12-09 03:55 pm UTC (link)
well, beware of the endless preparation trap (i'm just saying this as another person who loves research and who is prone to getting hopelessly mired in the beginnings of grand projects). and good luck, too.

and even if you don't think you can write a great book, you should still be shooting @ that goal, no? i don't mean to be corny but it's like that saying: "shoot for the moon -- even if you fail you'll land among the stars"

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[info]maria_sputnik
2008-12-09 03:56 pm UTC (link)
oh, duh, that was me

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[info]uberdionysus
2008-12-09 04:00 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I've finally started on the book. And I DEMAND great, even if I only get good.

And I meant that I'm not interested in writing a novel that's not a comic novel. I'm only an adequate to ok writer, so I don't think I could make a great book. Also, there are plenty of books out there that fill my desire.

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[info]uberdionysus
2008-12-09 04:04 pm UTC (link)
Comics novel. Been working on it since early summer, but almost all I've been doing is research. Endless research. I really like research, which is part of the problem. And it's WAY too ambitious.

I read enough to know that I'm not a good enough writer to pull off a great book.

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[info]eruv
2008-12-09 01:24 pm UTC (link)
I lol-ed at "Alan Greenspan and Pinochet."

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[info]kumakouji
2008-12-09 08:12 pm UTC (link)
I don't know whether I agree or disagree with you. How do you feel about libertarian Socialism?

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[info]uberdionysus
2008-12-09 09:58 pm UTC (link)
I believe that libertarianism of all stripes (including the category that somehow includes Chomsky) go overboard in their elevation of personal liberty. While I think that personal liberty is very important, I do NOT think it should be the end-all and be-all of political theory or any political system. Liberty and freedom must be paired with equality and justice.

I also think that the fundamental ideas behind the notion of personal liberty is deeply flawed, and that libertarians, in general, over-emphasize the goodness of man, and de-emphasize power and the way it congeals. Libertarians consistently deny that structural problems effectively limit personal choice and responsibility.

Libertarian socialism is a branch of anarchism, from what I remember, and is popular with the punks, again from what I remember from my days at the punk/anarchy bookstore. I think the abolition of the state simply creates a power vacuum, and to assume that nothing will rise to take its place is stupid and naive. I much prefer models that assume the worst in people and which tries to curtail power as it rears its ugly head.

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[info]kumakouji
2008-12-09 10:12 pm UTC (link)
"personal liberty", "Liberty and freedom", "equality and justice"... I don't know what these mean without a specific context. It would be like me saying "I want good to win over evil", but my definition of good won't necessarily be the same as yours.

This is why I shy away from picking a specific camp to root for. I'm not a card carrier. Present me with a specific issue and I'll try to give my view on things.

"I think the abolition of the state simply creates a power vacuum, and to assume that nothing will rise to take its place is stupid and naive."

This is completely agree with.

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[info]uberdionysus
2008-12-09 10:25 pm UTC (link)
Specifically, I hate the political policies of Milton Friedman and the economic policies of Reagan/Bush/Clinton/Bush. Specifically, I hate the neo-con ideology.

But I disagree with you. I am talking ideology, which colors everything we see. I am talking specifically about the ramifications of elevating personal liberty to the forefront of the argument. Ideology has drastic effects and to ignore its effects is silly. You and I both know that.

We can talk about the philosophy of good and evil as easily as Nietzsche could, and we can come to an understanding about what we are talking about.

I am specifically claiming that libertarian concerns have been the dominate ideology of the last 30+ years, and that we can see the effects of this ideology in nearly all aspects of U.S. life, and consequently, in the life of the world.

I claim that the Washington Consensus wouldn't have happened without libertarians ideology, nor would the recent economic mess, nor would many of the economic crises of much of the last 30 years.

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[info]xchimx
2008-12-10 12:37 am UTC (link)
I lost my blogging inspiration a year or two ago. :(

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[info]uberdionysus
2008-12-10 08:02 am UTC (link)
You used to have one of my favorite blogs.

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[info]xchimx
2008-12-10 11:43 pm UTC (link)
thanks, i appreciate it (and the feeling is mutual btw. it's easy to see that you take the time with your blog and it really shows). part of the problem is i just don't want to invest time into it again because most likely you and maybe one other LJ friend would read it. I liked it more to start discussions than to keep a record of my life.

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[info]dj_muse
2008-12-10 01:15 am UTC (link)
Missed you.

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[info]uberdionysus
2008-12-10 08:04 am UTC (link)
Missed you too. Kinda missed LJ but not as much as I thought I would. I think this was mainly something to keep me occupied while I was bored at work.

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i don't believe in coincidence...
[info]betchka
2008-12-10 01:17 am UTC (link)
Is this in response to our conversation saturday night?

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[info]uberdionysus
2008-12-10 08:02 am UTC (link)
No, but that conversation definitely got me thinking about what I hate about libertarianism again. Actually, this probably was a response to that conversation, but not consciously.

And not that you're libertarian, but you DID defend Alan Greenspan while denigrating Ben Bernanke. And our conversation on personal responsibility definitely stuck in my throat.

But there's much luv, Erikka.

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[info]uberdionysus
2008-12-10 08:11 am UTC (link)
So yeah, less of a response and more of a conclusion to ideas that conversation brought forth.

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[info]pdanielson
2008-12-10 05:52 pm UTC (link)
I've been enjoying 2666 - just getting to the 4th of 5 parts now. What is the socio-economic set though? I don't want to be tainted by an association to hipsters or literary types when I'm reading it in public.

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[info]uberdionysus
2008-12-10 09:58 pm UTC (link)
I'm only on the 2nd. And it got widely reviewed in ALL of the big literary periodicals and is this season's equivalent of W.G. Sebald. Reading it definitely advertises that you keep up with what's New and Good in the literary world. And that's not as gross as keeping up with hipsters, but it's still part of a group phenomenon - but not the same mass fever that popularized The Road or The Corrections - more elitist.

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